Teams face increased competition for the top players, (who are increasingly attending college showcases).
More teams consolidate and the best teams--academy soccer, club soccer and high school teams--battle to attract and retain the right player mix.
Stay tuned. This is bound to be good.
2,858 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1801 – 2000 of 2858 Newer› Newest»"Waivers should be NEED based. No issue with that at all. Players who simply want to play with friends are making a choice. Are you asying that there should be no consequences of that?"
The consequences are in a possible reduced developmental opportunity offered by high school over DA. While the waivers are acceptable, the clubs are in no way obligated to penalize the player for her choice to play high school
"What about the kids who have devoted time to playing GDA? Should they just be told ..sorry, Jane is back now ?"
Yes, if Jane is better than the player in question.
"She should be obligated becasue she already made the choice. There should not be an option to "make" the team mid season."
There should always be an option to add a player good enough to earn a roster spot, play and or start.
"If that exists, then why have waivers at all?"
This is a good question. The USSF put the waivers in place for players graduating from high school on or before 2021. Those players may have to change high schools if they lose a soccer scholarship which was seen as harsh. However another reason is that the USSF wanted to make sure it didn’t lose players out of the DA who wanted to continue her high school soccer experience. In other words to improve the chances of gathering better players into the DA
“ just dont sign up and then show up after HS to "try out"
That’s not the current USSF rule. That is your opinion and I have to say one based on your own child’s position on the team.
NYCFC are not allowing any waivers. HS players play ECNL at WC.”
It’s the club’s choice to allow or disallow waivers. The USSF allowed the clubs the choice. For those that choose to participate in the waiver program, no player should be penalized for the CLUB’s choice. The player’s with waivers are playing within the club’s and USSF designated rules. Upon their return or before their absence, their status on the team should only be determined by their ability. This assumes they are following all club rules on attendance and behavior etc.
"The best player currently do not pakly at the highest level. The best of those that can afford to and want to, do. Your statement is not clear. "
I would argue that your statement is not clear
"An ECNL/GDA player who decides to play for a Public HS with friends vs poor competition is telling you that she values playing at the highest level below other things. Thats fine and well within her rights, so why are they so concerned post HS ?"
A player’s choice within the rules is simply her choice at this point in time. I for example know of a player who is chosing high school in hopes of all American and Gatorade player of the year accolades. She has a full soccer scholarship to a prestigious university. That’s her choice and she is playing by the rules when she comes back as a starter for her DA team in a few weeks.
"Whose to say that the ECNL team is worse than the GDA team anyways?"
There are absolutely some ECNL teams that are better than some DA teams. Looking at the DA rosters, it is clear though that the majority of the BEST players in a specific club, and ALL of the top 3 players in the age groups within clubs with DA, are playing on the DA team and the B team is either the ECNL team if there is one within the club or the NPL team. The best teams in the DA are clearly the former ECNL teams. The best ECNL teams will be the new teams or possibly the ECNL teams without DA
"The two pools should just represent kids with different interests during HS season."
Absolutely agree that within the high school season there may be two pools of players, those that want to play HS and those who do not. Outside the HS season the DA becomes a meritocracy and the best players are rostered, play and start regularly.
"And yes, thats exactly what im saying. If a kid chooses to not play in teh GDA for a non NEED based reason, then the GDA should not even be an option."
Disagree. It is currently within the USSF rules to allow a club to issue a waiver. If the club decides to do so, said player is participating within the rules and her status should not be diminished.
"And done get me wrong, I an perfectly happy for anyone to choose any option they want , but all options should not be open to all at all times."
The USSF, again, issued a policy that in certain circumstances, kids graduating from HS on or before 2021 waivers may be issued. The clubs may then choose whether or not to offer waivers and to whom a waiver may be offered.
"The kids that ALSO made a difficult choice AT THE TIME should not then be displaced or have their experience changed by the mid season addition of kids who were not willing to make that sacrifice at the time it was mandated."
Disagree: the DA is built on the premise of developing the best players. For now, it is permitted and within the rules to play HS on waivers, those kids should not be penalized beyond the developmental opportunity they may be sacrificing.
" if that si not the case, then why have deadlines at all?"
There will always be provisions for adding players to DA teams up to a “full roster” level. (30). Again the purpose is to identify and develop the country’s top players one will not be denied because she was not identified or added at the beginning of the season. As long as the rules for adding a player are followed there is no ethical issue to adding a DA player mid year who may displace others from their current status as “Star”, “Starter”, or “bench” etc.
"Ti si supposed to be about individual development right, so if it is , the individuals who have bought in to that ONE YEAR program from the start should be protected for ONE YEAR."
I agree their roster spots should be protected, if they were initially included, but their play time and status is always fluid at the highest levels. I have no issue with a kid, let’s say 28 on the depth chart, never playing in a game except for her 25% starts and then for 20 minutes in those games. That is well within the rules and you accept those rules when you accept the roster spot.
"If you choose HS FOR NON NEED BASED REASONS then thats your choice - LIVE WITH IT for the year. Its called being accountable"
It is their choice and again the rules allow for waivers, The only consequence at this time is the potential for “lost” developmental opportunity.
Oh and my kid is playing DA and gave up high school FYI.
I totally disagree. To support the system you want, the GDA should have a split season. It does not. Kids with waivers are already rostered so where is the tryout you speak of? All kids should have been told, if you do not want to join the GDA NOW, no problem, you can try out for the spring season. Its one season. There would be no need for any HS waiver at all. EVER.
The entry to the GDA is set by date. Its not hey, show up whenever you want becasue the purpose is to id the best players. Ther are alwayts going to be special circumstances, but that goes back to the original point that you are ignoring - a WAIVER should be granted to join MID season becasue of a NEED or SPECIAL circumstance and , I want to play with my friends, or I may be a PoY is not that. Those are both CHOICES, PREFERENCES that a player has chosen and they should live with them.
I bet the USSF get way tougher on this next year or just forget the entire pretense of waivers. Its clear that there is a rigorous interpretation from some clubs and the total opposite from others.
The players who have committed to the GDA and potentially made a sacrifice to do so,deserve the respect of an annual commitment that should not change for NON NEED based returnees.
Do you know what a mission statement is?
The USSF mission statement with the DA is form the USSF website:
Mission
The U.S. Soccer Development Academy impacts everyday club environments to develop world-class players.
http://www.ussoccerda.com/overview-what-is-da
The development of world class players is its mission. The actions of the USSF in allowing waivers for a limited time in order to encourage potential "world class players" to join or stay is consistent with its mission. Putting players who have no world class potential on the bench in favor of kids with potential for world class performance is entirely consistent with its mission. I don;t expect you to understand this, but others reading might.
It's amazing to me that this mission promotes a viable non profit business. There are very few players with true "world class" potential. But i guess the model is entirely based on delusional parents and their delusion that theirs is one of the very few for whom the developmental academy was created to serve.
Do you think world class performance is consistent with setting relatively low targets like.playing with friends or winning HS games and awards ?
I think a kid with world class talent wants to be the best. Period. Not the best in HS.
World class talent usually require drive , ambition and sacrifice to achieve world class things.
Very hard to reconcile world class with players who think the GDA is the best (according to you) but don't want to challenge themselves in it yr round. I would respect the stance more if they thought the GDA was a bad idea and not going to work. The fact they want to join it suggests otherwise.
Saturday September 23, 2017 at 9:50am
Sky Blue - PDA U14 vs Virginia Development Academy U14 (VA)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday September 23, 2017 9:50 am
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/r/748658
Saturday September 23, 2017 at 11:50am
Sky Blue - PDA U15 vs Virginia Development Academy U15 (VA)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday September 23, 2017 11:50 am
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/r/748666
Saturday September 23, 2017 at 2:20pm
Sky Blue - PDA U16/U17 vs Virginia Development Academy U16/U17 (VA)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday September 23, 2017 2:20 pm
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/r/748669
Saturday September 16, 2017 at 4:50pm
Sky Blue - PDA U18/U19 vs Virginia Development Academy U18/U19 (VA)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday September 23, 2017 4:50 pm
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/r/748671
Do you think world class performance is consistent with setting relatively low targets like.playing with friends or winning HS games and awards ?
I think in this age group there are some world class potential players who see it as a few months of lower level to keep loyal to the team they have carried for 3 years. I think it is correct to TRANSITION the DA to absolutely no High School by 2021. In other words, you seem to fail to understand that the waiver program is a transition strategy to get the DA best stood up in a crowded market. It only works if nearly all of the BEST players in a market served by the DA are playing for DA clubs on the DA teams.
World class talent usually require drive , ambition and sacrifice to achieve world class things.
Don't disagree. However, I don't think a kid wanting to play a few months of high school soccer her senior year when her teammates and coach arev counting on her is evidence otherwise. I definitely don't see evidence otherwise if she has a soccer scholarship to Pennington or McDonough and wouls have to change schools because of the loss of scholarship if she doesnt play. Those schools offer a comparable developmental advantage.
Very hard to reconcile world class with players who think the GDA is the best (according to you) but don't want to challenge themselves in it yr round.
At this point, as with many start ups, the quality is highly variable. I think some of these teams are pretty bad actually. I definitely don't blame kids on the weak teams for playing high school. I think some of the private schools are as "challenging" and again I don't think a kid should have to change schools for a few months of soccer. By the time to DA is in full swing there will be no waivers and no issue.
I would respect the stance more if they thought the GDA was a bad idea and not going to work. The fact they want to join it suggests otherwise.
Again your statement is correct if the GDA was in full swing with "meaningful games" every week. Unfortunately as with most start ups there are growing pains this year and for the next few. Some of the GD are pretty staggering as they were with the early ECNL. I am not sure what kind of developmental opportunity is being offered there.
Again I think you are confusing the compromises the USSF has allowed during its first years of transition with evidence that the model is flawed.
I think you have a kid who is playing on a DA team who will be negatively impacted by kids returning from HS soccer. If she is then she is not world class and honestly the USSF doesn't really care. She is there to provide a venue for the kids they are really interested in. The USSF agrees with you that HS soccer is not generally an optimal developmental opportunity. hence they will close the loophole in 2021.
Please explain how waivering players for non need reasons helps the GDA stand up ? usually, people pay the closest attention to a project at the very beginning. 10-0 scorelines dont help. The players who you are arguing over sound like at worst Jnr, probably seniors, so your point is that making concessions to them now helps the GDA ? How?
I am looking forward to these world class talents coming back form HS and driving theses teams to new heights, but somehow I think the truth is that some Clubs want to win (or make $$) so its waivers all around if the player getting the waiver is marginally better than what they have. The world class argument is just not consistent with the number of waivers.
Please stop raising the need based waivers. I am no disputing them at all. The topic is no need based. waivers. The quality is always going to be variable. It is even more variable when you allow non need based waivers. It seems that the majority of your points relate to non need based waivers which are not in dispute. Whilst I fully support a need based waiver system WITH NO TIME LIMITATIONS, if a private school is similar in development to the GDA, then we have bigger issues.
For comparison, look at 2 clubs. FC Stars and PDA. Both offer ECNL and GDA. Both are in areas with decent HS soccer. One club has a roster full of waivers, the other does not. Why?
1001 here.. Obv i mean your point relate to need based waivers. Please focus on non need based ONLY. I have no issue with kids getting waivers for a real need.
I thought I had answered your question:
"If that exists, then why have waivers at all?"
This is a good question. The USSF put the waivers in place for players graduating from high school on or before 2021. Those players may have to change high schools if they lose a soccer scholarship which was seen as harsh. However another reason is that the USSF wanted to make sure it didn’t lose players out of the DA who wanted to continue her high school soccer experience. In other words to improve the chances of gathering better players into the DA
And I will add to make it more clear to you:
The environment today is completely different than the 2007 boys world. The USSF had to stand up the GDA in the very face of a successful "elite" league. There existed strong "competition". One of the big hurdles they saw in creating a second competitive league was its a perceived problem convincing girls who had already tasted HS to give it up. They need a critical mass of decent players to provide the venue in which they can corral the very few truly WNT potential kids for ID and development. In order to compete with the ECNL and USYSA for the best players, they had to allow a provision for only the older players to continue playing HS ball until they aged out. To say it another way, the waiver program helped to remove the inherent competitive disadvantage the model provides during its "start up" period.
Now having siad that I think they have the wrong model.
Here's my model
I would have left the ECNL alone. Instead I would have funded, with the millions the USSF is putting into this initiative, more of an ODP type model. I would have picked about 25 markets: lets say 3 So cal, 1 Norcal, 1 PNW, 1 colorado, 3 Texas, 2 Florida, 1 Georgia, 1 NC, 2 VA, 1 Baltimore, 1 PA, 1 NJ, 2 NY, 1 MA, 1 OH, 1 MI, 1 IL, 1 WI just to throw it out there.
Then I would have yes had more travel to fund, but fewer teams to help stand up. I would have created 3 regional events and 1 national event. I would have put the teams in boys DA league maybe a u17 girls teams in the u14 boys DA league The u19 girls teams in u 15 league or whereever the sweet spot is. The balance could be found.
As it currently exists it is further diluting the scouting and competition because it is too big. But no one asked me.
Ty for your model. You still do not explain why catering to players who simply want to play HS for no structural reason makes the GDA better. If you told me that there were several players with YNT potential who were turning their backs on the GDA becasue of it , then the USSF have a bigger problem.
The USSF take camps and attendance very seriously. My opinion is that the waiver process is not for the kids, its for the Clubs. Its a way of them getting more kids on rosters so the Clubs can charge to cover costs. The players themselves who bypass the GDA for non need based reasons are not going to register on the YNT id scale and stay waivered. The USSF are going to ignore them (not good enough) OR say I need a very good reason why you keep playing HS (if exceptional).
I don think the USSF give two hoots about playing with friends of PoY awards when they schedule camps etc to coincide with HS championships, ECNL Championships or anything else. At the level they say they are looking for, they seek single minded dedication .
You may be right as to why they offer them, but I dont think it achieves what you say it does. A waiver is not going to draw more kids into full time GDA. Its just a marketing tool for the Clubs and if you really think the players with waivers have exceptional potential then you are not doing them any favors if you dont present the pros and cons.
Waivers are largely a tool to keep old ECNL teams together in Clubs that offer both. There are some real need based exceptions, but the majority are just not that.
Do you mean the overall system is too big or GDA too big?
Something happened between ECNL and US Soccer. Had the kids played nicely in the sandbox, still, we would not be having this conversation. Maybe it was ECNL's decision to include boys when the ECNL league was formed to be a similar model to the boy's DA. US Soccer men and women's don't seem to be aligned, so maybe US Soccer saw that as the future of the combined ECNL model and acted accordingly.
So maybe that is why ECNL could not be left alone. I am just speculating, of course. But, once US Soccer formed it's own Girls' League, the kids and clubs flocked to it. And some clubs left ECNL all together.
For years ODP was the model, then ECNL, now GDA. All of them were the US Soccer brainchild. US Soccer decided it needed to have total control. Now, it does.
12:43 - spot on.
The boys DA worked because it felt like the most competitive league and was an honor to be selected to a team. Some of these DA teams are so poor its hard to see participation as an honor.
The USSF put the waivers in to increase the relative competitiveness of the DA in a crowded market until it grows its legs.
So poor? vs. other strong GDA teams? or in general? I haven't found any to be poor. I have found, like in ECNL and USYS, some teams stronger than others, but not poor play.
Agreed, and some teams had kids away at nat'l camps.
In usysa there were some super lopsided games in R1 Strikers were pretty dominant.
ECNL was much closer last year. There were very few blow outs across the country and the NE was very tight. The 2 CT teams were the weakest and they weren't horrible largely.
There are yes some really weak DA teams. VDA, LI, Sky blue NYSC and empire united are clearly "poor" teams. No ECNL team last year was as weak in the NE. PAC is probably just above "Poor" and again probably would not have won a game in the ECNL. The baltimore team was mjising their 2001 superstar but how much will she be there and I personally will believe it if I see she really can carry that team to better results.
Yup poor teams in the DA> Some really good teams too. Penn Fusion is better, PDA is the same and that's a complement, FC Stars and Breakers strong. Fury same as last year's albertson team. Oakwood may be the only decent add. All in all a lot less consistent competition.
4:05 do you have a kid that even plays in GDA? Some of the "poor" GDA teams would beat USYS and ECNL teams maybe even some you mentioned.
I would not say Strikers dominated in nat'l league loosing all 3 games at nationals, either.
I agree that Region 1 teams are always top of the boards in all of the leagues. But the boards are all over the place, now, like the kids. Will be interesting to see how all of this plays out at the end of the seasons.
405 Same way she carried the ECNL team with other YNT kids? Stop. Good player, not a difference maker
https://www.sounderatheart.com/2017/9/22/16353082/laura-harvey-england-national-team
NWSL could loose only female head coach to head back across the pond.
And, Marta and Sam Kerr being left off short list re FIFA?? How? Are the politics of soccer become too much?
810
So potentially of interest, I took my daughter to see the Washington Spirit Breakers game on Saturday evening. She has played in the ECNL for many years and decided to stay with her team which is not a DA club. She's all good in the ECNL, but we had an interest in seeing the 99/00 DA game just before. She wanted to see the level of the DA, and she wanted to see the Spirit superstar u17 WC player play against a decent team. She thought she might also consider the DA in the future, but after watching what we did, maybe not.
Have to say that game was shocking. I am not even sure what the score was, but let's say it was somewhere around 7 or 8 to 1. And it could have been worse. Penn Fusion was obviously told to play keep away the last 15 minutes of the game to keep the score down.
The superstar did have an assist on the spirit only goal, but was pretty invisible except for the many times she turned the ball over or got torched by the PF midfielders. She appeared out of her element playing up. Was not the best player on her team and not even close to being the best player on the field.
Fascinating to me that this kid was picked over probably 5 or 6 clearly superior kids on both teams. We checked the roster and the best PF kid who just came back from China wasn't even there. So minus their own superstar, PF really faced no competition at all.
How was that a "meaningful game" for either team?
Not sure what game you are watching 903,but the national player was clearly the best player on her team. She made several runs carving up the midfield in the back line including the one where she assisted on the beautiful goal. Not going to say she played great the whole game as you can see she was disinterested at times because the lack of talent around her. I'm sure it's frustrating for her. As for the PF national player, I've seen her play. I'm not sure shes top 2-3 on that team.
The DA thing is gonna take some time, not for some 99/00 teams, this is going to be a debacle all season long.
Both players are good. Neither changes games. To think one will probably be a 2x WC player.......all you need to know about the level of the pool and the selection process
@938 I was watching the game where she regularly lost the ball and played 0 defense. The fact that you admit she was "disinterested" is telling to me. A real champion quality player would not show character weakness such as you attribute to her. A champion would be trying her best to bring the other players up instead of disappearing in her "disinterest". So you are saying you think its ok that she withdrew in the face of her weaker teammates? If that's true someone should be calling into the NT to have her removed from the next camp list immediately. I think you just called her a prima dona did you not? Anyway she was ineffective from the start before her team had begun being the subject of a steam roll so I think your explanation is probably false. I think it more likely she just isn't good enough to succeed on her own. I suspect that some of the PF kids would have singularly scored several goals if they had been placed on the opposite team. The Spirit kid just wasn't that good. As @943 said is not a game changer.
I don't know the PF team much before this game. They had several kids who were levels above the Spirit kid. I don't know the absent U19 NT player, but to me it looked like PF did have at least a couple NT camp quality kids on that field.
@943 PF didn't need any other kid to change that game. They had it in hand from the start. In a kid destined for 2 u17 WCs I would have liked to have seen a fire of indignation. A single decent run does not make a champion. And no that was nothing special. Dribble endline and cross back is pretty basic. The PF players carved that kid up right through the center in many truly "special" runs and combinations. One of the best ball handlers on the field was a PF holding mid. Head to Head with the spirit kid. No contest who was the better player. PF has one of the most dangerous forwards I have ever seen. She did seem a little checked out after scoring several goals. Maybe PF limits their kids' scoring since they seem to have had several lopsided games and clearly they were told no more goals in the last 15 or so.
I would have challenged any unknowing but savvy onlooker to pick the "special" player destined for two world cups from that game. No way was he picking the right kid
Baltimore/ DC area held their best players in the ECNL. Obviously nobody told Bethesda or MD United that the national players had to play in the DA. The result is way too much dilution for the DA teams to be competitive in the older ages. USSF probably doesn't care about the older age groups. lets the YNT players stay on their ECNL teams.
So what exactly does a YNT "scout" report in these lopsided games?
Not that the "dangerous" forward threw in a hattrick against a weak defense I don't think. Not that there were two great ball handlers. In my estimation he reports that the YNT player didn't step up for her team if this reporting is accurate and seems to be by two accounts. But it won;t matter because that's not how it all actually works
10:23. You almost sound like one of these PF chest thumpers bragging about a win or how well their kid played.
Very thorough observations for somebody who just walk in off the street. Did you watch her play 90 minutes or did you see this spirt girl play for 900 minutes? Reason I ask is because I can sit down and watch any professional game at any level and pick out a player after seeing her just one time and say she don't belong. It's unfair to make an assessment of a player just from one game. These kids, and they are kids, have up-and-down games.
She had her moments on the field where I could see why they picked her. Not saying she's was a superstar or that she played a great game from start to finish, but neither did any of the PF players. I saw a lot of disinterested PF players by halftime too. Does that make them any less of players?
The game in question was over halfway through the first half. With lesser talent around her, it's not hard to see her or anyone "check-out". Doesn't mean she's not a special player.
Not the OP, but I have seen all these kids play multiple times. They have all had spells in YNT camps. The PF striker is a decent athlete, with size and a good enough soccer player to do well in ECNL/GDA especially against less athletic, poorly organized teams. I dont think she has big upside at the next level unless she gets a lot better on the ball.
The PF mids, including the one back form China are all decent, but you would get a very different picture of them if they were in a competitive game. The more creative one seems to have to much falir for the USSF and the one back form China, unlike the striker, seems to fit this new USSF trend of selecting kids who are all around good at most things but not exceptional at anything.The striker suffers from the backlash vs kids who the USSF think are too "athletic" whatever that means.
If you look at College coaches ( and i dont know if these kids have pre-existing ties to the schools the chose ) the commitments they have are telling. The ST is a prototypical UNC player and the rest are comitted to decent soccer schools, but not blue chip ones. The guys who get paid to get it right are usually pretty good at getting the best players.
The WC player , as stated above, fits this new positive discrimination towards mediocre athletes who the USSF think are clever players. In ECNL/GDA games , they often look pretty mediocre becasue they are not physical enough to make plays in isolation. She is a decent player, but not a game changer. I will be interested to see how she performs in College against the very best teams. She , for some reason, seems to have golden status with the USSF, no idea why.
1123 I think he sounds like an ECNL thumper. DA sucks because some of the teams suck. Only good teams used to be ECNL teams. My kid was smart and stayed in the ECNL.
I don't follow you. First you say you can spot a player who doesn't belong right away and then you say did you watch more than 90 minutes? what point are you making?
Do you think he can tell about this kid or not after watching a game or fraction of a game.
1150
The Blue Chip soccer schools are some of the earliest at the early recruiting table. They seem to largely select the u14/15 YNT players who seem themselves to carry a blue chip label without having had to prove very much. When you say the college coaches are paid to get it right? I think perhaps while your statement is correct I would argue they don't always get it right. I think that they are less often getting it right now, may be a reason as to why there is a move toward parity in the college game. The Blue chips are "forced" into selecting kids way too early for there to be any credit given to them on their insights. Many of these youth wunderkinds do not grow or develop as anticipated and further it appears you may also question the selectors choices as to whom to elevate. Remember Summer Greene? Anika Rodriguez? How are they doing now?
The PF striker is one of the most athletic players that I have ever seen. I think that will translate very well to college and she will quite possibly advance from there.
The PF China kid I agree good all around, but not particularly notable in any category. We will see if she can elevate her team in college. If they play to her feet she may help them move forward. The other midfielder, you say shows too much flair (sic) for the USSF. Maybe sad if true. I think we could use some flair at the national level.
There are several other R1 kids who have national level talent. Not all in the DA. In fact the most successful kids may be in the ECNL in this area.
McLean and Bethesda pop to mind. I will play the guessing game, my guess is the OP has a kid at one of these programs.
9:03 & 9:38 - what are you talking about? It was a good game. WS kept trying to get back into the game. PF is just a really good team front to back. Looks like PDA played VDA to a 1-0 game. PF won 10-0. Their gal that went to China has yet to even play a DA game.
12:44 - i disagree with your statement about some of the PF kids being able to score. PF was just that good. You know they practice against each other, right. So that keeper and certain defenders gets to practice against that high flying line up and vice versa. Their trainings are really good as a result. It makes all of them better.
THIS is where the GDA is showing how it works; in the development process. And PF has been doing as required as far as US soccer and meeting the % time requirements.
My2c, the ONLY real difference in the PF line up is adding an athletic kid who can score to this age group. Neither group was high flying in the ECNL. Good teams, but nowhere near elite WITH the majority of these kids you are now elevating in status,
The striker is athletic, but there are other equivalent athletes around. Maybe you have not seen them yet. The USSF tend to discount them pretty quickly. Just look at the strikers on the U17 team on up.
1227 UNC recruit athletes. They run them a lot and Very few emerge as better all around players. The player you mention has a very similar profile to BA from MatchFit/McDonough
11:50 i get what you are saying about the lack of blue chip schools picked by some kids, but that doesn't mean blue chip schools didn't come courting. It means they didn't pick them.
My daughter has been committed since summer going into jr. year and didn't pick a blue chip school although she could have. She still gets interest from schools which some would perceive as better re soccer hoping she will change her mind.
She doesn't go for the top dog; she picks the cinderella squad. The one she knows she will be valued and can contribute to their success. That's how she picked her high school, that's how she picked her club team, that's how she picked her college. Me, I was saddened she didn't go P-5, but she knows what she is doing.
1:03 - you don't understand how club teams work I guess. Their job is to get kids recruited. So, they aren't getting recruited sitting on the bench - player 1 or player 22 on the roster. You gotta play them. And, unlike some other ECNL teams, when in ECNL, they did.
1:03 - yes, she is a key new component. Sometimes that is all it takes. Some teams are missing just one player to make it work. Happens in all sports. I think it's called timing.
Oh and adding to above, not just athleticism, but having high soccer iq is key; knowing where to be.
When you add another kid on the field that has it, well, it makes it that much easier for the others that have it and appreciate another player with it.
Don't get me wrong, there are still some kids that don't have it in GDA some on my kid's team.
Very frustrating because at this level they are supposed to have it. But the kids that do and working with others as well, it's very nice soccer.
I agree. Big assumption that they didn't get blue chip offers. It could be money. The Blue Chips don't usually offer as big scholarships as the next tier. Some parents might not want to make up the difference. Some kids want to go in and play and make a difference right from the start. I mean at some of the blue chips, kids who have extensive YNT camps and would be considered blue chips themselves, sometimes barely play in their first year. It's a big leap to assume you know much of the recruiting details of any player other than your own child. Yes I am a little defensive since my kid picked her school based on academic fit and not soccer although she did help us defray the cost. I know some of the blue chips are super strong academically not saying otherwise-
I just looked up both of the kids you mentioned on top drawer since I am bored this Monday during lunch. One of them in her commitment article says she's a legacy at the school she picked. The other one committed in ninth grade as a blue chip YNT player herself and I think it a stretch to not believe she got other Blue Chip offers. Not saying they got offers at Duke or UVA, but they might have.
132 All it takes to do what? I dont really care about team performance becasue its somewhat random. Clubs are largely a function of the players who live close by. My point is the addition of one player is causing people on this forum to, in my opinion, overrate individuals. All thats happened is the team had gotten stronger by one significant add, and the competition has gotten markedly worse by several subtractions.
125 . No idea what you are talking about.
138 Not sure how you asses soccer IQ when watching mismatched teams? Its not hard to play when the other team does not offer much in return
And the other thing I noticed was that all or nearly all of the IMG top 25 teams are DA teams. Seems good old TDS is now all about the DA and has left the ECNL in the dust. I think TDS is full of it actually, but thought that shift of the spot light was interesting. Oh and they have PF listed as number 2 above PDA. That Striker apparently is making a huge impact
1:48 yep. and some just don't send in recruiting articles to Top Drawer when asked to do so. They don't want to upset or anger the others very good/high level school's that were courting or interested. You never know what the future holds.
1:55 - i assume, then, that TDS is getting it's info from US Soccer. It's not just that striker, it's the other complimentary players, too; front to back. Don't let the lack of TDS or TDS stars fool you. Some of the kids are late bloomers not on the TDS radar at 12-14 when TDS cares.
you can still assess soccer iq even if teams mismatched. in fact that is when some teams could play less then they are capable of playing. very common.
i agree with 2:08. you can still see kids not doing what they should be doing as far as soccer iq in all games.
1:52 - you say overrate individuals. haha i say finally recognizing them.
225 the individuals have all been recognized. Looks to me like some here are blind. Same individuals in the ECNL ...what happened ? Does it require mismatches for you to see a players ability? the one who is the most recent in NT camp has the fewest noticeable qualities.
LOL kids doing what they should be doing. What should you be doing in a mismatch? You learn nothing of value when players/teams are not under any pressure.
Im looking forward to PF vs PDA. the excuses are sure to flow from one side or the other.
1:52
not the other poster, but I get the post. when you have a team that isn't stacked and there is a drop off in level of play between top kids and end of roster kids, but everyone plays, it can make for some challenging games. Your own teammates sometimes add value for your opponent.
Very few teams have top to bottom very similar level players. Although that may change now.
Oh i'm talking about the reference to 1:25's post.
2:49 what should you be doing in a mismatch? how about continuing to play well? i've seen it alot. kids start thinking well we have this and then take too many touches, hold the ball too long in a dangerous area, etc., then they let the other team back into the game.
3:15 happens quite often at all levels. players get cutsey and then suddenly, game on.
was at game too and i would not say spirit ever gave up. they were still trying to dispossess even when PF was playing keep away. i would not underestimate any team.
11:23 - i agree. chest thumper. not cool. humility is an undervalued characteristic anymore, sadly.
1:48 - i'm 1:20 - there are many reasons not including money that kids pick where they pick. my kid had very generous offers from multiple places including the blue chips. so the money was not the issue. she had to pick what best fit her.
so some it's location; some it's facilities and i mean dorms, school, etc.; some it's academics; some it's coaches/vibes you pick up like maybe leaving soon; some it's how special a coach makes you feel; some it's program and how well funded; playing time; recruits coming in; players leaving...all of it. Money is only part of the decision making.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2017/09/22/report-hope-solo-u-s-soccer-federation-reach-settlement/693241001/
I find this discussion interesting regarding YNT selection and scouting.
To me I think a kid who is destined for 2 u17 WC should be immediately notable on the field as the best player. Was she? I know she was younger than many players, but she was included in a 99/00 u17 roster last fall. Even her supporter is admitting she was "disinterested" and made excuses regarding the quality of the players around her. An attacking player with these accolades should be able to make enough happen by herself be able to attract attention immediately and consistently throughout the game. Did that happen? Was she bothering the defense consistently with her possessions? I am imagining much of the WS tactics were "get the ball to the stud". She had to be on the ball consistently. I bet there was a scout there specifically tracking her. Wonder what his report stated? She doesn't have enough support? I didn't see the game. I did see the US Japan u17 WC game in which she featured as a starter. She has nice skills, but not magnificent and unless she is a very late developer her athleticism at the next level may hold her back.
9;47 Why come on here and talk about a specific players performance when you didn't even see the game? Seems to me people on here have an agenda. Maybe this girl took play time or even a roster spot from your daughter? This whole thing reeks of sour grapes.
As for the WS game this weekend, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of "disinterested" girls on both sides of the field. Usually what happens when you play a glorified scrimmage with a lopsided score. But hey, this is what US Soccer wants, right?
947 Fair questions that anyone looking to constantly evaluate players would ask. I can guarantee you no one at USSF is asking those questions. My daughters team has played vs hers at least 5 times. She has 1g and a handful of nice plays. She has never been the most notable player on the field in any of those games. I have no idea why the USSF think she is better than several older players I have seen multiple times who impact games more. The only important fact is , they do and thats not going to change. Too many invest too much of their reputations in advancing kids above their talent level. they have no upside in saying, maybe I was wrong. Until said people are removed from the NT system, nothing will change. there is no accountability becasue the US can beat most of the countries they play no matter who they select and no one is going to come back and say , why did you invest so much in player A when they quietly disappear in College. There is nowhere near enough player rotation in YNTs and far too many kids selections can be traced directly back to who the coaches are and what their club affiliations are. Until there is real accountability , nothing is going to change.
I think a YNT player should stand out no matter the talent around her, and even if she does not play well, you should be able to say, "i see why they select her". That should be even more obvious when a player is a multiple World Cup selection.
1115 a soccer culture will always discuss high profile players. I understand that some may find it unfair, but everyone I know who is passionate about the sport will talk about players and its really not personal. It seems here, the assumption is often that it must have something to do with a persons child. I dont think it has to. When I watch games, I am always looking to see who impresses and the kids who come in with the biggest reputations are always going to be watched and sometimes discussed.
I saw Ashley Sanchez play several times and it was immediately obvious why she is where she is. Even when not at her best, she was always a threat to do something good. Taylor Racioppi was the same.
Ashley Sanchez is clearly living up to expectation at UCLA. She and Flemming are really fun to watch. Also they are putting AR, another one of the over hyped YNT wunderkinds on the bench. These are high profile players and there will be those of us interested in the bigger picture of WNT/YNT/ soccer development who enjoy the discussions.
It will be interesting to see if JC is as successful at Penn State. They signed another little tricky kid recently from LI I think JS. AS isn't very big nor is Flemming but they are managing College soccer quite well so i wouldn't disount these two on size only. The question is: Are their skills and soccer IQ/vision etc enough to carry them if they lack physicality?
look at Tagliaferri? early returns?
PSU coach is very aggressive using early exploding offers. I think that is always a warning sign.
1219 is JC successful now ?
if you define success as getting multiple call ups, yes.
1241 Im asking what you consider success.
1241 by a similar metric then simply committing to PSU means she has been successful there as well then. No need to wait.
if that is the ultimate goal, then yes. btw - i'm not the other poster, 12:19 so his or her finding may differ.
12:49 not if the call ups stop during her tenure there.
She isn't the only one that was on the u17-WC roster that you scratch your head when you see them play on their club rosters or other trainings.
1250 which then invites the question, is all of this a shell game ? Is perception more important than actual performance until College ?
1252 you cannot use call ups as a measure of success. Thats nonsensical.
1254 Agreed,
12:57 - disagree. to the player who is playing the game, isn't that their goal? so if the player is meeting her goal, then isn't that success?
105 so if i set lows goals and meet them, thats success? I dont know any players whose primary goals are OFF the field. I dont know any top players whose goals are to simply make teams. They want to play and dominate on the field.
you would think, but based on those call up's, is that true? so some may be just to get multiple invites earned or not.
how many kids disappear into the college landscape after multiple call ups? do you think they view themselves as failures? those call ups probably opened doors that would not have been opened otherwise as far as choices, money and the like.
you don't have to agree with me but it seems to prevail even in NWSL. Allocated players are outplayed and outshined by others. pretty sure that was a previous discussion as well.
139
There is no CBA in YNT call ups. However there is tremendous club based nepotism which maybe accounts for much of the future non performance.
139 you are raising questions that have little to do with the original comment. Call ups are not success. they are one of many chances to perform. by the way, its easier in many ways to perform at YNT level which is why I think the players who have "backing" are continuously selected. What would be more embarrassing than giving a start to a a non "chosen one" - only to see them score goals and win games. that would really force people to ask questions. No one wants that.
I know several YNT call ups and I cannot think of one who came away satisfied after a camp in which they did not get a chance to play. I think any top player views failure on the field as failure. The doors and the money etc are byproducts of potential to be good. That does not mean the player concerned is necessarily the best now. You would hope that when talking WC caps, that current form was taken in to consideration, but im not sure it is with some of the call ups.
The CBA makes the NWSL comparison a little hard to make.
Not sure how CBA even plays into comparison.
It has to do with the mindset discussed, wanting to play well on the field when on it at all times at all levels.
Are you saying because payment is already determined, no incentive to give 100%? Maybe that's true.
Some allocated players seem to be miraculously fit come USWNT time, but on injury lists for NWSL teams. Its fair to question whether they give 100 pct all the time given the $$ incentives and the seeming over valuing of performance in NT camps vs League play.
Bottom line the evaluation process seems to be as follows NT games>NT Camps> College play= NWSL
Haha true except international allocated players. They are still fun to watch in NWSL.
9/26 @12:28 - what do you mean "always a warning sign."?
Has anyone heard about the condition of the various showcase sites in Florida? Are they game ready or questionable after the hurricane?
So no good games this past weekend?
Yep
High school.
okay. sure. keep living the dream.
PF 6
Classics 0
PF return of the YNT stud with 4 goals. Other superstar did not play. I guess they just need one or the other to pound on a pretty weak Classics team.
shame that this has become a PF appreciation thread. I dont see the value in playing over matched teams
Looks like Classics didn't score a goal on any PF team this weekend. But, I guess they are all mismatches, right? I'm not on either team, but i recall the last time these clubs met, balloons were being dropped because goals were scored. Now, it's a mismatch. Okay.
i did not drop the balloons so I cant comment. But the teams who have consolidated ECNL talent on GDA rosters are going to beat up on the other teams who are either ECNL/DA split or just new to the league. Look at NYCFC. I think they are doing well results wise across all ages and they are not exactly a powerhouse team at U18/19. I dont see too many comments exalting their wins. it is what it is. The only half decent game will be PF/SB-PDA.
How is penn fusion so much better than these other teams? It looks like they have scored more than twice as many goals as the other teams in the mid Atlantic and the north east. Huge goal differentials. It doesn't look like that much fun for anyone. It also looks like they have quite a few kids contributing and it isn't just one or two kids like what's been said.
113 I told you how above. most of the competition is either split between HS and GDA or from areas that GDA has not taken hold of. I know the Virginia options are very expensive and not attractive relative to say a McLean ECNL team. The North East and Mid Atlantic are spread very thin. If you had say - FC Stars, SB PDA , One of NYCFC or NYSC, One of Fury, LISC , Breakers, Oakwood. Cedar Stars removed Empire you one have one decent group. The Va and Washington teams can play among themselves :)
Go look at ECNL results before this year. PF were not a dominant ECNL team. World Class were not a dominant team either. Those 2 are the biggest gainers. The sub rules favor them becasue they are less deep than PDA or Stars, but 11 on 11 they can def compete. I think 11 on 11 PF are better than PDA at GDA 18/19 even when PDA waivers return. hey have better top end talent.
1:44
You don't seem to get it. This PF team is new. PF players but from different teams and sprinkled in some add-ons.
In teams that don't carry large rosters, the ECNL model takes a toll on the top of the roster players. The ECNL model favors the bigger clubs that carry about 30+ on their rosters; each game you can introduce fresh legs. The lack of back to back to back games in GDA keeps players healthy.
okay sorry 1:44 you do get it. my mobile device didn't fully load with your comment before I commented.
Well isn't that how they should be judged? Their strongest 11 players vs any other team's strongest 11.
I would not compare WC to PF because PF went to the Champion's League in the 00 and 01 teams.
And, finished in top 12-16 overall of ECNL without carrying a large roster. I would say that's pretty darn good. If you can still compete against those clubs that don't have huge drop off with a handful of players carrying the load, i would think that speaks volumes more than it doesn't.
And I'm not on either team. I just like it when the little guy gets his due.
229 ty. people are quick to critique and usually slow to accept a mistake. We agree. In my opinion the teams with real top end talent - whether that be 1 or more are favored by GDA. PF are better than NYCFC no question., but its very interesting from a results standpoint to see how an impact players can really carry teams now.
The deeper teams really benefited from those moments when coaches of less deep teams tried to get minutes for weaker players OR could neutralize players by rolling in fresh legs to mark them all the time. The PF striker would get beat up every game by multiple players. Much harder to do that now.
If you think the GDA mismatches are bad, then in context remember that the deeper teams in the ECNL had periods in most games like this where they were beating up on really weak lineups or resting key players to come back into games fresh. Meanwhile the PF kid would still be out there battling 2 players most of th time.
In a way, i wish College soccer was like this re subs. Would be a far better game for many reasons. Talent would also be spread a bit more as kids would want to play re come off the bench.
242 it depends what is important to you. To me, I dont care one bit becasue when it really comes down to it I am only involved in what this process does for ONE player. I dont worry about how teams are judged. I am just telling you why its now different. Its ironic that so many people were/are choosing Clubs like PDA based on wins and losses not becasue the top end talent is so much better ( it isnt) but becasue their mid layer is beating up on another clubs mid layer, winning and re-inforcing how great PDA are for a player.
All i wanted was for my kid to enjoy playing, win some, lose some, get good training and get better. been a lot of ups and downs in that ,but on a good road now. Fingers crossed it stays that way because College will certainly be a big mental and physical challenge. Hope she is prepared.
it's not what was important to me. i'm saying it speaks volumes for the individual efforts of those players doing most of the heavy lifting to help their team make it into the champions league versus big roster clubs. It gets lost in the soccer street cred of the teams with a large/deep roster; unless you want to go to Rutgers. lol
2:47 i agree with you. would love to see the college game go to the FIFA sub rules. the line up changes can interfere with the flow of the game.
so those with a huge roster in GDA don't necessarily have advantage since limitation on subs. you aren't making changes to line ups like before. And, how are you getting 25% playing time for these kids as mandated by US Soccer?
@2:47 It is not 25% playing time. It is 25% start rate. Big difference.
Sorry, but when you have limited substitutions, you want to make the most use of your starting times.
i meant sorry that i misstated the 25% rule.
So how does that work as i thought it was 25% playing time too? I guess the other poster is right, if you have limited substitutions you have to judge if you are coaching. Now i understand the anxiety on the board with DA playing time. may not get much at all.
Kids 17-22 on the roster play an average of probably less than 15 minutes a game. Is that different from ECNL?
It is for my kid's team. Her coach played everyone at least 20 mins per half even in big games. Helped them get recruited; screwed up rest of the squad. was like watching high school many times.
not that the play was like it as the core kids still tried to play their game, but is disruptive.
Lucky you, our team was not as lucky. kids had to do id camps instead.
What?? site admin please.
Looks like a competitive group in the u18 Bethesda Tournament. The u19 are not properly entered.
I guess blame US Soccer for that too.
it does look like a good amount going to Bethesda. didn't know how that would play out with all the changes. what about WAGS?
I have a younger player and on that site it mentioned that more GDA clubs are in the works. How many are they planning on adding does anyone know?
VDA & Cedar Stars - anyone know? not posted yet.
What about Tophat & Courage, too? That was probably a great game knowing that many girls on both teams opted out of high school.
And, the rematch of Penn Fusion & FC Virginia, both good teams as well. Scores trickle in it seems.
Just looked, those U18/19 Scores finally posted
Tophat & Courage - draw - 2-2
Penn Fusion & FC Virginia - PF - 3-0
Obvious tiers developing. The top tier are the former ECNL teams. Bottom tiers clubs with weak or new girls programs that could not draw strongly enough the top players in the area. Question will be will that change in the next year much? Or will it be longer or never. Huge goal differentials. PF +30?? Jeez. Lots in the - double digits PDA BBA FC stars and NYFC. How long will ussf give the bottom dwellers until they relegate them? PAC should be happy that they can claim CP else with both genders' oldest two teams winless they should get axed.
@308 not sure I agree. I think it is far simpler. It comes down to the teams that have a proven goal scoring threat. NYCFC are not a strong team an arguably lost 2 of their top 3 players from what was a mid level ECNL team. The only one close to its ECNL team is PF. Some because of defections, some waivers and some injuries.
How is that different from any other league? A proven goal threat in any league is just that...a proven goal threat.
too bad they didn't put this team together sooner. i found it strange that they would break up teams for various events.
3:43 i guess you are not familiar with the PDA or Breakers. They have most of their ECNL team rostered. There are others too.
The ECNL NE Conference in the 2000 age group was much better than the GDA we are playing in now. One would think it will take time and the younger teams should see the growth and improvement, but it is not good at all right now and it better change! We had tough games most weekends last year and that is not the case at all now.
The GDA is going to grow in the NE, what will be the new GDA clubs in 2018-19?
just a weaker ecnl...with a new name....don't kid yourself
415 its pretty different because so far its ALL you really need. NYCFC dont have much more that and are undefeated. They are playing without 2 of their better ECNL players and a host of injuries and winning games. The ECNL team was mid pack . Its much harder to stop dynamic players now because of the sub rules unless you have talent to match up.
343 Very familiar. Point is BB are missing key offensive players, PDA have the kids rostered, but at least are waivered or injured so not really the ECNL team now either. PF are really the only team that has largely moved intact with its better players.
NYCFC are probably not as good as FCS or BB player for player, but beat both back to back days
9:33 GDA isn't as good as the ECNL was last year. Maybe GDA will be become better, but you are full of it if you think this has been good for our girls or they are getting better from playing in the league so far. The training is the same and the teams we play are worse. All the players really needed were to play girls that were D-I level and pushed them to be better. We don't get that and it's not because we have become better, we are just playing teams that would have been less than average USYS teams that didn't even win state cup.
6:47 not good at all? Not our experience. Maybe your kid needs to do play in another league then. I hear Nat'l League is looking. Could also move to an ECNL team in time for league kick-off no doubt.
11:07 like the other poster noted, why stay then? Of course ECNL was very good, it WAS the top of the tier. But, it was not good for teams that didn't have deep and large rosters. As another poster noted, all the back to back games were rough on most players.
1107 my kid has improved greatly since quitting HS soccer and this is just an extension of that. If not for you, then move on, but stop generalizing for the rest of us.
Apologize for late post. Late shift and taking a break.
Thank you 12:24. I agree. Some of these posters probably don't even have kids in the DA system. They just like to throw stones. If your kid is enjoying her development and can see it paying off, then that is all that matters.
You probably think the DA is all good if your kid has been playing for a lower level team like PAC for all of her youth soccer. Then all of a sudden her team is in the DA and it feels like she hit the big time. Video, scouts, national website etc. Hiwever, for those of us who's children have been playing at a higher level including ECNL champions league etc, these lopsided games do feel like a developmental nadir. The northeast ECNL last year did have a few lower level teams but they were losing games by three goal margins not 6 or 8 or 10. Add the fact that some kids are seeing half the minutes they had before because of the sub rules, those playing the whole game are all but bored and it feels like ECNL was the good old days. Having said that, I believe the model will work over time and within the next 3-5 years the weak programs will be gone and the talent will again consolidate. We just hit it at a bad time. They should have rolled it out with the boys in 2007.
1107 GDA is better than the ECNL ever was for my child. I will explain why. ECNL is a league with a tournament/showcasing platform attached. If you are an early commit who has moved beyond the concerns of being seen then why do you need to play in showcase games all over the USA? AT that point the ECNL loses almost all of its relevance
So far, GDA is more of a training group who play a game once a week to implement what has been worked on. There is less pressure to be seen and more focus on stuff that will hopefully pay dividends in College. One game per week reduces the wear and tear on players and allows them to put more into the game as they dont have to conserve for tomorrow.
That being said, I can understand why its not for everyone and also believe that its not for some of the kids who are currently in it. Thats the part where a good idea meet financial necessity.
For my child and my family, a large part of the ECNL was a giant waste of money.
813 Its case by case. I truly depends on what you are looking to get out of Club soccer. Some of the players you mention who are playing the whole game could easily not start in favor of those that are not. It comes down to how your team is managed and what the Club wants to achieve. Either way, I have never cared much about the game results. If you happen to be on a very strong team unlike most people , I dont think that is always a developmental plus.
916
LOL! the kids playing the whole game are many levels better than the kids coming off the bench. You are a totally delusional parent. I can see you sitting in the stands fuming that your kid is getting 20 mop up minutes or not even getting in the game while 6 others consistently play the whole game. You are fomenting unrest among the bench parents sitting with you in the stands on how the kids on the field are the "golden children" and supporting your position that with the same "advantages" all the bench players including yours would be national goal leaders. Most teams have such a grouping with a leader such as you. Oh and your kid would be committed to a P5 with a hefty or full scholarship if she had been afforded the same "advantages" because she's that good.
The GDA sales pitch, illustrated by the training-to-match ratio, the use of video analysis and the like, presenting their approach as being so vastly new and different from what elite players already had access to and/or were doing is comical.
Some of the parents I've talked to act like they were granted to the secret recipe for McDonald's Big Mac special sauce, to which I chuckle because their great discovery is more like old news, been there and done that for most who were already serious about their child's development. For what it's worth, I think most of those parents of GDA players I know are being disingenuous, they and I both know the reality that it isn't actually that new or different, and I'm not saying it's bad (it's not), but they're trying REALLY hard to persuade others that it's all great, worth it, etc. to the point of appearing insecure. Your kid is happy? Not regretting missing high school? Good for them, relax and enjoy, no need to convince anyone of their "pathway" being more special. The 18/19 GDA group are playing teams that are not very good. The level has dropped off. Many of the best players in the Washington DC area stayed ECNL or left clubs that moved to GDA. The case it the same in NJ and Boston. It is a down time for players in this age group. The training is the same and isn't very good. Let's come back and visit this again in May to see how things are going. This ride comes to an end soon for my daughter and it won't make a difference either way.
1018 you could not be more wrong. My kid has been s YNT player since U-14. Still is. I just dont think that you need to start and play every game. There are other kids in the Club who should get opportunities and quite frankly the marginal benefit of another start vs what you call weak competition is zero. I am perfectly happy to watch my kid save tread on the tires, let other kids play and watch. learn where appropriate and continue to be an unselfish leader on her Club team. There is a certain security in not being so caught up in every game.
By the way, my kid is committed to an ACC school on a full scholarship.
1018 Its case by case. My child stopped playing HS long before GDA arrived. Poepl need to stop analyzing the whole thing and focus on self. For her, GDA is perfect. There is more to the GDA experience than just playing games and now instead of training with younger teams in the HS season, she has an actual group to train with. She has a game to play and experiment in and she has film to watch and break down. There are some good games and some bad ones, just like the ECNL. Your area may be different. I respect that, you should respect others choices more.
1032
I did not understand your point in your first post. I agree that kids don't need to start every game, and that these games can be far from "meaningful". However, I thought you were one of the- my kid is as good and should be starting crew. There are still big spreads in level among many teams and many parents just don't see that.
The "save tread' is not as much an issue with the one game/week schedule. The increased training is an advantage. My kid doesn't miss high school at all.
1100 are you 1018(1) ? If so, Im glad you understand now. There are many levels in every Club and in my opinion they all deserve time. The only way that happens is if the better players understand that. For most of them its a marathon culminating in a successful College career. If you have that as an objective, all this is just steps on that road. Wins, Losses teammates quality etc are all less relevant. AS long as my kid has that goal, I will support it. If it changes then so be it.
If a kid is stressed about getting a College etc, then I totally understand why they would sweat this stuff. Reality is most of the parents on these boards doing that are in that boat and they re either trying to get 3rd party validation for their decisions or knock someone else is choice. A truly elite player has no need to do either.
8:13 actually my kid doesn't play on a lower level DA. But i am seeing the soccer maturation of the kids. Some are doing things they didn't do previously. Some are still stagnated, but will hopefully improve as well. But for the ones that get it and have previously, they are now surrounded by other like minded kids.
So while it may be boring for you or your kid, i see the continued improvement in their overall development. my kid has played a high level before but to now be on a team that most of them get it instead of don't, well, even better.
And for the bored ones, i guess they aren't loosing possession ever. i guess they are hitting every goal they attempt, right? they are making the correct runs always, right? they are playing the perfect game, right? if not, well then, still room for improvement too.
10:18 does your kid even play GDA? i get the feeling you were the observer on the hill a few games back. I am 11:57 and agree with the other posts that are acknowledging the benefits of the GDA. There is more upside than isn't. Btw - kid's team was in champs league in ECNL last year too; and she is happier with this team over last year's.
No one said anything about no room for improvement, but with teams winning games like they are there is little incentive and excitement. It's not very much fun and no way to spin it otherwise its not the same developmental advantage as it was when goals were harder to get. Sure they can try and make the best of it which they do, but its a lesser game day experience than it was in the ECNL that's just a fact. In my mind all the teams in the bottom half of the tables are weaker than the ECNL teams left behind. Does the increased training balance out the game day experience? -maybe.
Bet some kids will be happy to leave early for college in the coming months
good posts all. even a maturation on the board as well.
10:18 i always liked the big mac so nice analogy. pavlov like; i am now hungry. lol
i don't hear anyone doing a hard sell re gda at least not in our club.
1213 any kid who is playing at a high level better be challenged by training. I feel that you may be from PF and if you are, then its on your coach/club to perhaps find a way to challenge the players more. AT our Club, training is a much bigger part of the GDA experience than the games are. Ive always said that being on the strongest deepest team is not necessarily a benefit at Club level. Its funny, becasue parents brag about that all the time without seeing the downside of it.
12:13 unfortunately with the ECNL records down no way to go back and track, but i remember some boring ECNL games with the bottom half of ECNL conf. and teams/games with 4-5 goal deficits.
12:13
you do realize that the teams have been playing games only a month, right? so your toughest ECNL games were in the first month or later down the season as the teams improve in playing and practicing together. And maybe the goals are a little easier to get because other kids are being more creative then previously, too.
the poster at 12:13 brings up a great point. so for kids that may be leaving early do they feel that they are in better shape as far as conditioning and touches to leave early now or would their ECNL/nat'l league/hs experience have them there? since GDA is about individual development, then intended benefits reaped.
12:36 i think the poster is saying the game day experience is the issue not the practices. obviously the practices are putting them in good game day form. and that may be it. the practices are better than the overall games. not a bad problem to have in my opinion.
Question regarding GDA and college commits. Have any players who were previously committed been approached by a coach from a different school and made the decision to change their commitment? I know that the topic is very taboo but I do see this as a possibility if the GDA carries more Cache.
If ECNL games had been played under the same sub rules as GDA I believe you would see very similar results. The deeper teams in the ECNL had a huge advantage in being able to sub in fresh players of similar quality. In the GDA this is not the case. Elite talent has a chance to wear other teams down. PF are the only team around here who have a few top end players and it makes a huge difference.
111 my only point is you cant have one without the other and as I just said, that game day experience is impacted by the sub rules. Another thing I failed to mention is look at the drop off on all but the most dedicated ECNL teams in the U18 year. Once kids are committed, many stop going to games etc. Its why rosters size usually goes up. so far we have not seen this much in hte GDA. The kids who want to be there are the ones who signed up.
1:54 do you think anyone is putting that on a blog? my kid still gets interest as coaches can make contact directly, but i won't dare detail. she is happy with her commit, but always good to have back up if necessary.
154 that has nothing to do with GDA but yes, kids change their minds. Often the "story" you hear is spun. Coaches at good schools do not make a habit of reaching out to committed players because they dont want it done to them. Often when a player changes school it is related to coaching changes, grades , real stuff, but people spin it so as to save face.
agreed. nothing hardcore. but subtitle, like small talk and let me know if anything changes, because it does sometimes.
Yes the practice expansion and year around schedule is a huge advantage in development. The lopsided games are not so much. I think the training advantage probably out weighs the game day sometimes disadvantage. But it would be nice for the ussf to step in after seeing the situation and readjust the schedule to make it more competitive.
10:32 I am sure your daughter will be like the rest of the girls before her at the club and fail in the ACC. If she is who I think she is her good days are beyond her. This is what is wrong with US Soccer and them holding on to players with the hope that they weren't wrong when the selected her 3 yeas ago. Selection has been poor and US Soccer continue to fail.
The Youth System in America has evolved into a model that seeks to relieve parental anxiety. Of course, that is the foundation of many non- scholastic environments in the modern age, but it has now nearly strangled hope for change. Many the modern parent seek advantages for their children, so they follow the herd for their piece of the pie. Any true development is strictly coincidental, as patience, hard work and discipline are passed over for the next Top Drawer list, or team selection bragging rights.
5:01 - ouch. be nice all.
12;36 interesting guess. I thought NYFC or PDA.
PDA would still be at the top if the change didn't happen. PDA or Sky Blue will be back and will be on top again.
That is what has been discussed throughout. The ECNL model favors the big clubs with big/deep rosters. That model is being disguarded by US Soccer probably for the very same reason. And maybe to quell some of the overt politics that went on as well like PDP picks, etc.
When does Spirit MD play Spirit VA?
Bethesda vs. McLean would be the match to catch in the DC area.
Or the Spirit MD/VA too. Curious how the inter club squads will work against each other.
4;03
readjust the schedule? it would have been nice for them to put some dead times in the fall and spring schedules so kids can do college visits and official visits while kids are on campus without too much disruption.
i know there are dead periods in Dec and Jan but no clases or students around either. hard to get full flavor of school unless school is in session.
501 and if she does I hope she learns from it an emerges a better person. Her 4x 60k will give her a chance to emerge with a degree, from a top school and no debt. Ty for the vote of confidence. The negative mentality that roots against our own without even knowing who they are is also a reflection of youth sports. Something you are displaying for all to see. As far as parental anxiety goes, if we had it then it all but gone now. Never chased accolades, but she has certainly been rewarded for her hard work.
511 dont care if 501 is nice or not. She did not need the advice to get where she is. Plenty of haters out there and she has faced most of them down. I hope she continues to.
well, i'm 5:11 and i care. your daughter and that other person's daughter are both soccer players and kids just trying to keep it all together. respect each other, parents included.
742 I am pretty sure I know who you are and I have to say, her school could really use her THIS year. The finishers they have right now are not getting it done. Your daughter and her classmates will definitely improve the team next year and I will look forward to watching her play on the ACC channel. The haters are just jealous obviously. She's a terrific player who demands attention in every game. My kids a defender and is well aware of her. Also apparently they have conversations on the field and she says she is a nice kid. Congrats.
I also enjoy your comments and pov.
@740 there are off weekends this fall for at least most teams. Also kids have been missing games with excused absences for official visits. Most of them are dictated by the school when they try to get the whole class together for the weekend of festivities.
203 you think some teams are more successful in the DA because they weren't deep enough and would you say fusion is more successful in the DA than they were in the ecnl because they aren't a deep team and the sub rules now are favorable? I thought it was because their super forward is now playing on age and the other teams aren't good. When I recently looked at some of the DA info they play a watered down PDA this weekend so there will be a test. It will be known then if they are the real deal. apparently according to the game day stats their super forward wasn't there when they beat PAC by a 6 goal margin, but their national player was and scored twice as many goals than super forward in the first game. So Probably a combination of the kids developing and new add (s) changed the level if it's changed if it's not then the competition is just that bad in the DA. I will say Though that they have a lot of players scoring a lot of goals.
How's the spirit Baltimore super stud doing? I don't see big stats but since she was out on national duty she doesn't have too many games on the books. Probably frustrated with the level. Why didn't she play at Bethesda with the impact? Or FC VA or mccleanTravel across D.C. To play in Richmond? Odd.
Not many 4 X 60Ks floating around
I'd doubt that figure from 7:42
Not many but some...
I know who she is and I don't doubt that's the offer she got. My kid is a 100% they are more common than you think. Most of the top 2-3 kids on the top flight teams have those offers. Some don't take them and instead choose a higher ranked program at a lesser amount. Top ACC programs 100% is much more rare. I didn't know that her school offered many at that level. I know some YNT kids there on much less, but i believe him. All power 5s guaranteed for 4 years.
hahaha. can i play? in a top team too and my kid's school is more expensive so we have a 1 x 60K and 3 x 70K. Don't think many of those, either.
Just putting another topic on the board.
Okay, NWSL championships are on Saturday. DA games are on Saturday and maybe others as well. Why not make this a down girls/women's soccer weekend to watch or attend the NWSL game? They have to work together to get attendance and viewership numbers. Thoughts?
Looks we have some middle schoolers posting on this blog....
Thanks for trying to bring adult convos back 4:40
This piece addresses the overall issue with our soccer...
https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/11/us-soccer-sunil-gulati-president-usmnt-world-cup-qualifying-failure
GDA and ECNL should be all over the NWSL. The NCAA Women's D I soccer final four get very few people to turnout unless it is packaged with a youth soccer showcase where tickets come with playing in the showcase. When women's events team up with a youth soccer event like CASL there were 9,000 people in the seats. If people care about women's soccer then pair the events up with youth events and you will get people in the seats. It's something to make the product look a little better.
Last year our GDA team were guests of the US Women’s National team at an event in Philadelphia. When we went to the game some of us observed our girls and laughed about the kid’s attention level. Very few girls watched the game, most were chatting and fooling around with their phones. Most girls didn’t care about the game. Some of parents thought is was funny or cute. I was disappointed.
In order for women’s sports to survive they have to watch the games. Women and girls need to go to the games. Women need to buy the team shirt. The next time the girls are waiting around to be seated at a team meal or hanging out after a game ask them to name 4 NWSL teams or two non US national team players. Ask them anything about the NWSL and you will find that they don’t have a clue. By the time most of our daughters are wrapping up their college soccer career they don’t want to look at another soccer ball again. This says something…I have my opinion but it there are reasons.
The MLS is successful because adults go to the games. Adults are season ticket holders. It is no longer about parents bringing their child to a game because their child is a soccer player, the ticket holders enjoy soccer and care about the sport.
Two things - my daughter loves soccer and watches it. However she has no interest in watching wonens soccer. Top level mnes, sure. As far as MLS being successful, I would challenge that notion. Successful in some cities, sure, from a fan attendance pov, but a truly successful domestic league does not underpin a National Team that cannot beat T&T when it counts. MLS is a comfy country club for owners and players. No pressure.
1024
I echo you
My daughter is constantly watching men's soccer. Also watched men's soccer videos. Let's face it women's soccer is like underwater soccer. And the ussf isn't picking the girls who could speed and spice it up. Sadly I am glad the men didn't qualify maybe there will be some changes and we will develop a soccer culture that values the girls who can play a faster and more sophisticated game. It still won't be as interesting as the men's game but it should be a closer product than it is. There is nothing in a girls biology that should force them into terrible first touch, poor vision and technique to get the ball when we do see where it should go and absent creativity. But that's what we have.
9:25 agreed. the stadium is packed to watch the spring friendly between duke and uva during the Jeff Cup event. having the games on Lifetime is wonderful, however, it's smack in the middle of the afternoon. We DVR them, but rarely are able to see them live. No one attending because kids are playing games at that time or parents that would take them are running weekend errands after working all week.
9:25 and my family can not only name 4 NWSL players but probably at least 4 from each team. We have gone to the NWSL games at multiple areas since it's inception. And while we talk during the game, we are talking about the game and how someone is playing her position. Also was at the SBC too. Did we take a few phone pics and pics with friends after finding them in the stands, too? Of course. But had a wonderful time watching the games; FR & ENG and GE & US. And we have gone to other US WNT games as well.
I happen to be the poster that US Soccer should not have any games during NWSL champs. WE have to support our sport. We attend guys' games as well. You can do both.
114 It is the same sport. I think you mean support women. Gender doe snot make the sport different. If it did, the whole equal pay argument goes out the window
Yes, that is what I meant. This is a girls blog and discussion was NWSL. So thank you for making the message crystal clear.
For the poster saying the women's games were not as dynamic as the guys, have you ever seen Marta, Tobin Heath, Christine Sinclair, Sam Keer, Kelly O'Hara, Alex Morgan, Rose Lavelle, Jess McDonald? There are others, but these are the ones that we saw in NT games and NWSL. They do put on a show.
Yes I have, but unfortunately they are not all on the same team and even if they were they would be similar to watching a u16 DA game.
I don't put Sinclair, o'hara and Morgan in the same class as Kerr, Lavelle (on the couple of occasions when she has actually played), Heath and of course Marta. Who I really like is Jessie Flemming and am really encouraged by Ashley Sanchez, but in general they are but glimpses of sunlight in the cloudy sky for me. Nope give me bro-so anytime and I have 2 daughters who play and a son who likes to smash them up in Lax while I play in the over 30 men's soccer league. BTW as has been proven before a relatively skilled group of 16 year old boys will take down the USWNT with ease and that's what I am saying. Not of the same level and I find the generally poor technique and lack of sophistication frankly boring. My daughter feels the same. The other one watches no soccer.
i get it about sinclair. saw sinclair do one of the sickest moves in soccer in faking the defense (may have been last season or prior). she is still pretty fast, too. And, saw Kerr last year and she is much better this year. was always dynamic but now a complete player.
I would rather watch a woman's game over a men's game any day of the week.
The men are embarrassing! They fall to the ground every 2 min and grab their shin like it is broken. Then they jump up and sprint away like nothing happened. Their antics kill the flow of the game and is not punished enough by the center ref. They cry about every foul called and in general act like a bunch of babies. Don't even get me started on the MLS. It is like watching kick and run HS ball.
Physically, women are at a disadvantage over men. However, the women make up for it with heart. The women play tougher. Watch the speed of play between both. The men stand around a lot where the women are constantly pressuring the ball. I also like to watch the women because they play for the love of the game. With a few exceptions (endorsements for top 2 or 3) we all know they don't get the money they deserve.
648 opening a can of worms here. I have daughters and love the fact that both play. The male and female games are at a different point in the evolutionary phase. The women's game generally lacks the cold hearted pragmatism that the mens game has to have. Why? Because it is further along technically and tactically. You have to take advantage of every trick to get an edge because its no longer enough to be fast or strong or skilled - every one is.
The womens game is still dominated by athleticism. Technical mastery is not needed to excel. Its moving in the right direction .
As far as mnmoney goes, markets are efficient. I am of the unpopular view that they are getting more than they deserve in many cases becasue the commercial $$ are not there. Market are efficient. I believe that a NT needs to be based on a solid domestic league . The gulf between allocated players and teh NWSL rank and file is not heathy. We are already seeing 4yrs vets retiring from the NWSL becasue 15k is just not enough. That is not sustainable. In many ways I think if the USSF just took all the money they throw at YNT camps/ trips and the GDA and put it to non allocated player salaries, we would see a HUGE uptick in youth soccer quality and development. Why? Because you would create a financial incentive to do so. The min salary needs to be at least 50k per year. Obviously this will not happen as the Clubs are privately owned, but the USSF is creating huge gaps in the soccer pyramid by the way it is treating the NTs. A NT is part of the ecology, its not a separate entity. You are seeing the same philosophy applied to the GDA. Its not a good idea. the elitism just alienates the very bedrock you need to build on.
Happy Friday !!
Total waste to send these kids abroad to play in meaningless friendlies and "tournaments". Agree the money could be used much more wisely.
Arena resigned
Good start
Gulati indicating he's running again. Call for the USSF BOD to make the president a paid position to entice competition
8:43
I follow this type of women's soccer on Instagram. ACC baby, although I can't focus on the soccer. This is the future of women's soccer!
morgan_reid
Orlando or NC ?
#1. 12:37 AM I would take Orlando if they were playing today.
#2. Maybe NWSL should think about doing a home and home and decide the championship on aggregate? Playing in an empty soccer specific stadium isn’t good. Foolish move by the league. Perhaps they were worried they wouldn’t have enough money by the end of the season to pay for the flights??
#3. Orlando City didn't want to hold that game at night because the attendance didn’t justify the cost of the electric for the lights.
Portland Thorns over NC Courage 1-0. Good game.
I thought last years championship game was better going into PK's and win by the Flash now Courage over Wash Spirit. Just my 2 cents.
http://equalizersoccer.com/2017/10/15/lauletta-nasty-fouls-injuries-lack-of-cards-sucked-the-life-out-of-2017-nwsl-championship/
good article about refs not taking control. comments are worth a read as well.
PF 18/19 ...what happened? where are all the PF are great posts ?
We lost
There you have it
I guess its easy to be seduced by one sided games. In the entire GDA regular season for the Mid A and NE there are maybe 6 meaningful match ups at this age . PF should not be losing 0-3 to anyone with the players they have. That sounds like bad luck or a really poor performance. I know that given 4 practices per week the PDA coach will have his team very well prepared tactically for every matchup. No team is better prepared on game day , for what that is worth.
Just on face value, I expected more from PF. Maybe just a bad day at the office.
This PF team has never been very good, wouldn't put them in top 5 in NJ/PA. Easy for people to get excited when they have been playing really bad teams in a weak league. Nothing has really changed.
Nothing wrong with PF losing this past weekend. Its just one game and these two teams always have really great games against each other. Nevermind the score line and what the end result was, it was one game and in the big picture really means nothing but a win for that particular weekend. Not the end of the world. PF like many other teams in GDA and ECNL have some really nice players and talented young ladies. There is no question about that and mind you these are young ladies in the making out there getting it done and whatever they are doing during the week as far as soccer training it is showing on the field because I see the talent week in and week out. What makes me scratch my head at some folks is that before this particular game took place people were making it seem as PDA had no chance of even competing or coming close to getting a result. Well I will say it again there are many good teams with great young ladies on those teams and guess what PDA has always been one of those great teams. I see them week in and week out and I see and seen them against the best competition this country has from EASTCOAST to the WEST COAST and they always stand true. I say that to say this, this is our last year as an age group being all the seniors and the class of 2018 across the country and for a moment just think of all these kids that your child has been competing with or against since U8 and man I see kids all the time and I say WOW I remember when she was 8 years of age and now look at her and how far she has come as a soccer player. Its truly amazing and I don't know about you guys but I am going to enjoy this last ride to the fullest because before long they are all off to college and I assume this blog won't exist unless someone starts a blog for what would our college graduating year would be. Anyway great game PF I am sure it will be another great game in weeks to come over at your place. Your girls showed what champions do after lets say a loss and that was show great sportsmanship in congratulating your opponents, shaking everyone hand and saying good game. Speaks volumes of your club and what PF is all about.
Eric Harris
(Camera Guy and Live Stream Guy lol)
My kids play on another DA. I thought the game would be close and was interested in the clash of the titans. Seeing the result, I was surprised enough to look at the game report. On the game report there are quite a few players not rostereded including their GK. I know some of them from my kids and ODP and their playing against them and they are very important to the team. It appears PF are not deep enough to manage that kind of situation. However they did have both of their national team players. With a roster that thin I am guessing that PDA marked their impact players out of the game. PF had only 15 kids rostered including a DP who played 26 minutes.
I am not making excuses for them, they obviously aren't deep enough to manage absences or injuries, and being able to manage that type of problem is part of being a top level team. I am just pointing out the facts as I saw them. Did anyone see the game? Was it as one sided as it appears although I don't think the score even allows for there to be any doubt.
Again, it was a close game. Like I said don’t let the score fool you. It was a very exciting game from start to finish. Each team had several opportunities missed. Obviously, PDA finished on just a few more chances that they had but overall it was a good game by two equally talented team. I am not sure what PF had missing but PDA is missing 8 players due to High School and injury. No excuses for PDA their roster right now consist of 2003’s 2002’s and 2001’s to fill out their roster but to be honest those younger players are ballers and each week they are not only getting better but major contributors to the U18/U19’s. So, what does that tell you. PF has some very exciting young players on their team also on the U16/U17 there are some very fine players on that squad also. On a side note there very a very bad collusion between one of our PDA players and a PF player in the U16/U17 game that cause for both to go to the hospital and from what I heard one needs plastic surgery splitting open her face and breaking her nose. I sure hope both ladies’ recovery fully. It was totally accidental where neither girl saw the other. Again, back to PF that is great that the DP player got 26 minutes in a game like that. What experience that player got in a game that was isn’t about the WIN but more of the development of all those kids out there. Sure, PF is plenty deep and rich in players. As I said PDA is a very good team and are missing 8 players until high school season is over and as we see it, they will not be with the team until December when they showcase down in Florida. As I said I am the film guy and if you want to watch all the DA game that PDA has played you can go to where I live stream the game on THECUBE.COM and type in Players Development Academy and you will directed to my page where I live stream the game. Its FREE……shocker huh lol but if you would like to watch the games just like me and every week that I live stream and you are bored and want to check out the game it will send you a link every time a game is scheduled. The other way you can watch the game is go to my Vimeo site. Go to www.vimeo.com and just search Sky Blue PDA and I think it should bring you to all the Development Academy games for all age groups at PDA that I have taped this year.
Eric Harris
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